'Meh' Return of the Jedi

[Falconer]

I always used to watch ESB+RotJ on a single night when I was younger. Now, that’s too much… And the other problem is that it exposes the huge dropoff in quality from ESB to RotJ, as well as the abruptness with which RotJ wraps up all the plots which ESB had painstakingly seeded. So now I watch the trilogy over four nights:

1. Star Wars
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Carbonite Caper*
4. Return of the Jedi

* - name coined by Finarvyn; this is the first 35 minutes of RotJ

So you basically get that dropoff between #2 and #3, and it’s bad alright, but you know you’re in for a cheesy little adventure; and #4 is then more or less back to form.

But the thing that really redeems RotJ is the Thrawn trilogy. The Thrawn trilogy obviously inherits the situation that RotJ left it in, and proceeds to expand pretty logically upon that situation. There’s a lot of use of Mon Mothma and Ackbar and the Bothans. And I love the Thrawn trilogy! So in a way that retroactively brought me to accept RotJ, whereas before I would have agreed with those of you who would have said, meh, I could take it or leave it.

I mean, yeah, Han never gets to do anything cool (never even flies the Falcon) and Vader never gets to do anything evil. So it’s never going to rank as high as SW or ESB, but, ranking is a bit beside the point, right? As just one of many episodes, it is more than adequate, right (esp. if it doesn’t bear the weight of being the finale)?

What do you think of RotJ?

[rafael]

I loved the Ewoks as a kid, what shall I say?

[finarvyn]

Jul 7, 2018 16:30:27 GMT -6 Falconer said:

1. Star Wars
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Carbonite Caper*
4. Return of the Jedi

* - name coined by Finarvyn; this is the first 35 minutes of RotJ

Thanks for the shout-out on the title. I agree that RotJ as filmed really ought to have been broken up into two mini-movies, as the style and plot of each part is so different from the other. 

I'd like to amend your list a little, and make it a five-night marathon:

1. Rogue One
2. Star Wars
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. The Carbonite Caper*
5. Return of the Jedi

I know that technically, Rogue One doesn't fall within our pre-TPM boundaries, but I thought it was well done and really should have been the first half of Star Wars. Not sure if 35 minutes makes for an entire evening's viewing, however, so maybe get rid of the "cliffhanger" element of ESB and watch ESB adm TCC pm the same night to make a 4-day marathon again. Maybe number something like this:

1. Rogue One
2. Star Wars 
3a. The Empire Strikes Back 
3b. The Carbonite Caper* 
4. Return of the Jedi

[greyarea]

Jul 7, 2018 16:30:27 GMT -6 Falconer said:

I always used to watch ESB+RotJ on a single night when I was younger. Now, that’s too much… And the other problem is that it exposes the huge dropoff in quality from ESB to RotJ, as well as the abruptness with which RotJ wraps up all the plots which ESB had painstakingly seeded. So now I watch the trilogy over four nights:

1. Star Wars
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Carbonite Caper*
4. Return of the Jedi

* - name coined by Finarvyn; this is the first 35 minutes of RotJ

I like this. 

Not a fan of RotJ.  Prefer 

1. Star Wars
 (maybe read Splinter again here)
2. Empire Strikes Back

I might add "The Carbonite Caper" to the mix.  

[Zenopus]

It's funny, at age ten I found Jedi to be a Return to form (pun intended). A few years earlier (age 8?), I had found the second half of Empire to be long and draggy, particular the parts with Luke's training. It wasn't until repeated viewings as an adult after getting the VHS copies in the early '90s that I came to appreciate its greatness. Though I never stopped liking Jedi.

And I was also an Ewoks fan back then. Some of it was due to the Kenner figures, which were my favorite toys. Since there were Kenner Ewoks and the Ewok Village playset (which my family had), it made me like them more than just seeing the movie alone. I remember a D&D character with an Ewok henchmen around this time.

[Yora]

I never understood the issues that people have with Return of the Jedi. I can never decide if it is my second or third favorite Star Wars movie. Of course it doesn't reach equal hights to The Empire Strikes Back, because I consider that one the best movie ever made and being flawless.

The only weakness I see in Return of the Jedi are the costumes of the ewoks, which make them too short and pudgy, and their fight choreography. If they were more viscious looking, I think they would be fine.

As a kid, I always thought The Empire Strikes Back was the weakest because there's not much action after the opening. But I was young and stupid and couldn't recognize gold when I saw it.

[owlorbs]

Even while I was young and impressionable I felt that Jedi was the weakest. However, that didn't stop me from seeing it in the theater three times that summer.

[boot]

I became more of a fan of RotJ after I saw the prequels.  

[Whill]

Me too. I love RotJ. I love it more than even TESB, but I tend to enjoy the movies with more resolution and the climactic final battles the most.

[boot]

My issues with RotJ are the silliness and the lack of originality. As for the silliness, we see things like the blue elephant in the band at Jabba's palace, which would be OK, since it was minimal. I mean, the silliest looking alien in the entire original trilogy at least didn't have a speaking part.  Before them, though, we see the silly looking Gamoreans.

But, then it gets worse with the Ewoks. They would have been fine if their role hadn't been so pivotal. Too much screen time was devoted to them, and there were too many scenes where the Ewoks were kicking the Empire's tail. The Emperor said that he's got the shield station on Endor's moon guarded by a legion of his best troops! These are the cream of the crop! What we saw were silly little furry Ewoks taking them out! It was hard for me to believe, even at the age at which I saw the film. It turned me way off.

And then, the retread of yet another Death Star. I wanted something new. I wanted to be taken to new places and heights in the Star Wars universe. Yet, what we got was a re-tread of the ending of the first movie. Instead of a trench, the heroes had to fly through the superstructure.

I think RotJ would have been much better had the Ewoks and Second Death Star been left out of the film completely. If the writers couldn't come up with something new, I would have liked the Rebels catching the Emperor visiting Vader on the Executor, or something like that, where the final battle happens around taking out that massive ship.



Here's my order...

1.  The Empire Strikes Back
2.  A New Hope

3.  The Force Awakens
4.  Rogue One
5.  The Last Jedi
6.  Solo

7.  Return of the Jedi

8.  Revenge of the Sith
9.  Attack of the Clones
10.  The Phantom Meanace

[owlorbs]

I should also mention that I thought the Kenner Ewok Village was awesome and the Biker Scouts were amazing looking Imperial troops. I think the toys increased my admiration of the movie (which was destined to remain in third place - at that time). Also, Peter Cushing didn't retire until 1986, they could have brought him back for some more villainous behavior.

[Falconer]

Too bad Peter Cushing’s character was dead. Ian McDiarmid was a more than adequate replacement!

[Yora]

The Emperor in Return of the Jedi is a Dark Side villain that beats all the others that came after him. He plays it hammy for everything it's worth, but the result is a character who seems genuinely capable of running an evil empire. All other Sith Lords I can think of are raving idiots.

[Zenopus]

Jul 9, 2018 8:09:39 GMT -6 boot said:

And then, the retread of yet another Death Star. I wanted something new. I wanted to be taken to new places and heights in the Star Wars universe. Yet, what we got was a re-tread of the ending of the first movie. Instead of a trench, the heroes had to fly through the superstructure.

As a kid, I was actually impressed with this writing. I had recognized that in most serial cartoons the villain(s) would have a plan that would almost succeed, but for some minor exploit of the heroes. Instead of just improving their plan slightly, the villain(s) would instead come up with a completely new idea that would also fail. The Wile E. Coyote syndrome. I wanted a logical villain that would take their first failed plan and try to improve on it. And I got that with the ROTJ Death Star.

[Starbeard]

Like most people too young to have seen the first two movies in the cinema, it seems, I have great memories of RotJ and liked the ewoks (and still do, if I'm being honest). I find them them less obnoxious than the cutesy critters and droids in the latest movies.

I have a half theory that our taste for cute Star Wars characters is based solely on our age. I've noticed that ewoks seem to be hated by everyone except for two groups of people: those who were little kids when ewoks were a thing, and those who had little kids or grandkids when ewoks were a thing.

I couldn't stand Jar-Jar or the gungans when that movie came out, but I was a teen. My older brother was a new daddy, and he thought Jar-Jar was great.

Same goes for Minions, actually. Minions are adored by 1) little kids, 2) women in their 20s, and 3) grandfathers. Those also happen to be exactly the same demographics that I have noticed take a great shining to the Porgs (speaking anecdotally from personal experience, of course).

So yes, I'm sure the ewoks are annoying and detrimental to the lasting quality of Return of the Jedi, but it's okay for me because I was at the right age to forever be blinded to that fact.